Vodafone, WAP & a £1700 bill

[Vinnie Brien]

Good morning people, I'm a newbie on here prompted to join because Vodafone have stressed me out more than I thought would be possible, here's my problem, hopefully somebody will be able to give me a few pinters.

I went to bed on Friday night of the week before last only stopping to put my phone on charge before climbing the wooden hill to Bedfordshire, got up next morning fully refreshed and toddled off for a haircut.

On Thursday of last week I got a text from Vodafone asking me to contact them immediately to ensure continued usage of my phone.

On speaking to them they asked if I'd used WAP on my phone at all over last weekend, I told them that I dipped in and out during Saturday to look at the rugby and football news on the BBC website whilst away from home and that was about it. They then told me that my phone had connected to the web on Friday evening right through until Saturday morning and had run up a bill in excess off £1500 plus VAT.

I downloaded a copy of my account usage from their website and could see that the phone had downloaded in excess of three hundred 3mb packages from the net starting at exactly the time I plugged it in, stopping when I unplugged it next morning, laying dormant for a while while the phone was switched off while I was in the barber's chair and then reconnecting to the net briefly when I switched it back on.

I've explained to them that I have broadband in my house and so wouldn't use a phone to download via WAP continuously for 10 hours, the download total amounted to 1.1gb when my phone only came with a 512mb card, the phone was locked when I plugged it in, the phone will not connect to the net without me having to press a button to allow the connection, my children were not about to hijack my phone while I was asleep, in short there must be an error somewhere.

I've told them that I'm not willing to pay them £1700 for a bill which I do not believe is mine and asked how we can correct this error to make the charges go away. They have told me in turn that they cannot discuss any outstanding charges until they have printed their monthly bill and sent it to me, I don't trust them to put the disputed amount to one side once the bill is issued and believe that they will try and take the full amount of the bill via direct debit once the bill is issued falling back on the old chestnut that once the bill is issued there's no time to correct it before the DD falls due.

They have asked me for a stage payment right away to ensure continued usage of the phone, I refused this and they have suspended my account only allowing incoming calls and texts now, I in turn have cancelled the DD to ensure that they cannot raid my account by forcing the DD though early on the off chance of taking what they say they are owed.

Perhaps someone here with knowledge of these things may be able to answer a few questions for me please,

If on the online bill the downloads are shown as 312 individual (albeit consecutive) downloads will each of them have required an individual connection to the net, the reason I ask this is because if that is so I would have had to stay with the phone and connect it to the net each time, all this is supposed to have happened while I was asleep.

I bought the phone and airtime as a package from Vodafone via phones4U, if by some weird happening it turned out that the phone was actually connecting to the net would I have a case because the phone is not fit for purpose in that it allows you to connect to the net against your will or knowledge and shows no evidence of anything actually having been downloaded despite 1.1gb of information passing through it?

Any help or advice offered would be gratefully received.

[toxic]

What does it actually show in packet data?
Thats the data usage of the phone using the Vodafone AP.

Do you use GPS at all?
If it is set to use the Vodafone AP it will try to download the MAP

[Bartmanekul]

Im wondering if you could manage 1.1GB in that time as well. Its possible if you had a 3G connection I suppose.

It sounds very suspicious that it did it exactly when you plugged it in. When you say plugged it in, what do you mean?

Was it just a charger, or was it a datacable too?

Do you leave bluetooth on?

Basically, if indeed it did do that it could be malicious code, or a virus. Weather you got it from your computer when plugged in or got it from bluetooth (both *highly* unlikely) it would also have to delete this file as you pointed out theres not enough space.

Can you also give a list of the things you have installed to that phone?

It sounds like one of the following:

Vodafone cockup. While thats very possible especially given the problems they have had with billing (most noteably overcharging for net access), its bad that it coincided wit you charging it and turning it on etc.

Its a phone error. Something might have got 'stuck' and kept trying to download or sort itself out.

Its a software (third party) error. Perhaps something you installed has got stuck in the same way as above?

Its a virus, as I said earlier.

Basically all you can do is contest it unless you get details of what exactly was downloaded. Perhaps vodafone can tell you the site it came from, that would certainly help.

Until then, its just going to be you against them, and Im not sure how thats going to turn out.

Still, if it goes to court, there are some things in your favour.

Why would you want to download 300 odd of the same file?

Why wouldnt you use another method, like broadband?

Why is there no evidence of this on the phone?

Where did it go considering you didnt have enough memory?

How exactly can they prove it apart from logs?

I would also offer to pay your normal bill (the rental and any minutes, texts etc) in another way, as witholding payment will not seem good and they can ask for the phone back from you. Also, if it does go to court you must look to be as reasonable as possible. Stopping the payment is a very bad thing but you could argue you were worried that they would take the full amount out and you cant afford it.

Tbh I have no idea legally how this will go, but you have to make effort to be reasonable. I know thats difficult, I have had to ring the voda numpties many times, and they are not clever along with the long wait. However if your attempts to reason with them fails, get legal advice as thats a large amount of money. And trust me, they *WILL* put debt collectors on you, they did it to me when I allegedly didnt pay the end of a contract.

But finding out where these files came from or what they were is the best bet for everyone. I imagine they will say they dont record stuff like that, but there we go.

You dont know what it is, they dont know what it is, theres no evidence of it apart from their logs. Ho hum!


Oh, and always always log your calls.. Note who you spoke to (ask for a name), what time and date, and what they told you (and obviously, what you asked them). This is extremely important.

[sp00k]

Originally Posted by Bartmanekul

...I would also offer to pay your normal bill (the rental and any minutes, texts etc) in another way, as witholding payment will not seem good...

Vinnie brien... As Bartmanekul says, you would be well-advised to pay what you consider that you owe, refusing to pay anything at all will put you in a very bad light indeed should this come to court... This is important!

[Hopefullyuseful]

Hi,

I can completely understand the situation you must be in, having a bill this high and not knowing how this happened would be concerning. I'm sure there is something that we may be able to do or help you with. If you were to e-mail us by going to our Vodafone Online contact us form here which is found on our Vodafone website Vodafone UK, we can then do all we can to help.

If you include the code FIT135 somewhere in the body of your e-mail, this will come to us in the forum team and we can look at this for you. Please remember to include your account information in the fields that ask for them. This will stop us from having to e-mail you back asking for the info which will only delay sorting this out for you. Hope we can help.

Hopefullyuseful
Vodafone UK

[Homer]

Do as Hopefullyuseful says, I can confirm this will get your issue looked at by someone at vodafone and not just an automated answer.

I have read of one other very similar case on another forum, in that case the charges were dropped and the phone replaced. I don't know if it was ever determined what had caused the phone to continually download.

Have a search on this form, which is where I think I read the other case.

[added]

This is the thread.

[takahashi]

Spook, as far as I am concern. The bill from any phone company is a credit to the purchase of the service they provide, but still any credit (even VISA/Mastercard) there are avenue for dispute.

By paying the bill, you are admitting the correct charges they have made and it will be impossible, even in the hands of the best lawyer, to get it back, unless Vinnie have recorded the conversation between the operator (who ask Vinnie to pay).

BTW Vinnie, any conversation you have with the Vodaphone should be recorded.

[sp00k]

takahashi... You didn't read my post carefully enough, methinks! ;)

Particularly this part: "...you would be well-advised to pay what you consider that you owe..." i.e. The monthly payment due, less the apparently excessive data charges... Therefore the question of being legally able to reclaim it wouldn't arise...

However, as Vodaphone, to their credit, appear willing to help the OP in sorting this matter, such advice hopefully won't be necessary... :)

[takahashi]

Well you did not explain it well enough haha.

[Vinnie Brien]

Thank you every one for all your help, I'm at work at the moment but will take time to read all your answers carefully and reply to any questions when I get in this evening.

Many thanks in the meantime.